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Updated: May 1, 2025
"And do you think it possible," said Socrates, "to know what a democracy or popular State is without knowing what the people is?" "I do not think I can." "And what is the people?" said Socrates. "Under that name," answered Euthydemus, "I mean the poor citizens." "You know, then, who are the poor?" "I do," said Euthydemus. "Do you know, too, who are the rich?" "I know that too."
After this Socrates, observing that Euthydemus always avoided being in his company, lest he should be taken for one of his admirers, attacked him more openly; and once when he happened to be where he was, addressed himself to the rest of the company in these words: "Certainly, gentlemen, by what may be conjectured from the studies of this young man, it is very likely that when he shall have attained the age that permits him to be present in the assemblies of the people, if any important affair come to be debated there, he will not fail to give his judgment of it; and in my opinion he would introduce his harangue by a very pleasant exordium, if he should begin with giving them to understand that he had never learnt anything of any man whatsoever; he must address himself to them in words to this purpose:
"But tell me whether what is reputed beautiful for one thing has the same relation to another as to that to which it is proper?" "No." "Then 'whatever is of any use is reputed beautiful in regard to the thing to which that use relates?" "I think so." "And what say you of courage?" added Socrates. "Is it an excellent thing?" "Very excellent," answered Euthydemus.
Eurymedon went before, in midwinter, with money, and to announce that Euthydemus and Menander were chosen out of those that served there under Nicias to be joint commanders with him. Demosthenes was to go after in the spring with a great armament.
It was arranged that Demosthenes should employ himself actively in getting ready a large force, to go to reinforce Nikias in the early spring, while Eurymedon, although it was winter, started immediately with a supply of money, and with a decree naming Euthydemus and Menander, officers already serving in his army, to be joint commanders along with him.
"Nor can we expect to find temperance nor modesty in a debauched person, since the actions of temperance and debauchery are entirely opposite." "There is no doubt of it," said Euthydemus. "I do not think neither," added Socrates, "that it is possible to imagine anything that makes men neglect their duty more than debauchery." "You say true."
Long ago, in the Euthydemus, the vulgar application of the 'both and neither' Eristic had been subjected to a similar criticism, which there takes the form of banter and irony, here of illustration. The attack upon the Ideas is resumed in the Philebus, and is followed by a return to a more rational philosophy.
"Tell me further," continued Socrates, "is it lawful for men to behave themselves to one another as they please?" "In nowise," answered Euthydemus; "there are also certain laws which they ought to observe among themselves." "And do they," said Socrates, "who live together according to those laws, live as they ought?" "Yes." "And do they who live as they ought live well?" "Certainly they do."
"There is no doubt of it," said Euthydemus, "for otherwise there would be some fools, and even cowards, who must be accounted brave." "And what are they who fear what is not to be feared?" "They are less brave than the others," answered Euthydemus.
"Is there anything more pernicious to man," said Socrates, "than that which robs him of his judgment, makes him embrace and cherish things that are hurtful, avoid and neglect what is profitable, and lead a life contrary to that of good men?" "There is nothing," said Euthydemus. Socrates went on: "And may we not ascribe the contrary effects to temperance?" "Without doubt."
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